Transform function for number display?

Hi

When the function is Fader, and State display is Number, the midi fader's raw value is directly displayed. For example, the value change from 0 to 16368. However, this isn't human friendly in most cases. If it was displayed as +6 db to -60 db, for example, it would be more useful.

Simple way to provide this feature without touching the preexisting code would be adding another option : "Number with Transform function".

There could be an input text field provided for a transform function. Here, x value refers to the raw midi value. The user can provide, for example,

Code:

-x/16383.0 * 66 + 6

This function transforms an x value from 0 to 16368 into +6 to -60.

Hi,

I'm a bit confused. Are you talking about the Cubase/Nuendo plugins? (since you posted the suggestion in this forum). These plugins can't have the function Fader and don't display values.

The Midi plugin can handle faders, and is shipped with a translation file that show db values the way you suggest.

Best,
Gunnar

Oh, I get it - you mean the Mackie Control action in the Midi plugin!

Yes, you're right. Such an option would make the display more useful. I'll add it to the todo list.

Admin wrote:Oh, I get it - you mean the Mackie Control action in the Midi plugin!

Yes, you're right. Such an option would make the display more useful. I'll add it to the todo list.

Oh sorry. I posted it in a wrong place.

I moved the post to the correct forum.

The formula you mentioned doesn't work - fader values are logarithmic. In Cubase I can chose between 15 different logarithmic scales for the faders. Of course it's still possible to define mathematical formulas that produce the correct result, but I'm not the mathematical genius to do that    and the question is how many Cubase users who are...

So the question is: if I add a text field where you can enter your own formula - how many users will be able to do that?

Admin wrote:I moved the post to the correct forum.

The formula you mentioned doesn't work - fader values are logarithmic. In Cubase I can chose between 15 different logarithmic scales for the faders. Of course it's still possible to define mathematical formulas that produce the correct result, but I'm not the mathematical genius to do that    and the question is how many Cubase users who are...

So the question is: if I add a text field where you can enter your own formula - how many users will be able to do that?

Right. I totally forgot that decibel is a log scale. Sorry. The correct formula would be then,

Code:

20*log10(x/max)

max could be 16383.0 in the previous midi controller case. (BTW, we should handle a boundary case of x being zero, where the result should be -inifite db).

And you are also right that there won't be many who would like to enter this formula. And even less who would invent a different formula from this one.

So a better idea would be, just add an option for the fader that will translate the raw midi value into a dbfs value with this fixed formula and provide an input field for the maximum value for the raw midi value.

Yes that's the standard formula for db calculation, the only problem is that it doesn't produce anything that is even close to the db values shown in Cubase...

Admin wrote:Yes that's the standard formula for db calculation, the only problem is that it doesn't produce anything that is even close to the db values shown in Cubase...

Is there a particular reason that you want it to be modelled on the Cubase db meter?

cjunekim wrote:Is there a particular reason that you want it to be modelled on the Cubase db meter?

Of course not. But I had a user that suggested that the button should show db values instead of raw numbers and I assumed that the presented number should be the same as the target fader. If this suggestion is to be implemented we must find formulas that produce the correct results and I have Cubase, Nuendo and Studio One 5 to play with.

I have searched the net and have questions in multiple forums but haven't found any formula that produces values even close to the target fader regardless of DAW.

I think that your suggestion is very good and if there were a possibility to show db values on the button it would be a great feature. But if we can't find formulas that shows the same thing as the actual fader it quite pointless, don't you think?

OK, so now I understand why I can't find any formula that give the same result as the faders themselves - they aren't implemented using formulas.

Each fader implementation seems to be unique, and in order to show reasonable correct db values in the plugin I must map a number of points in the curve and then extrapolate the values in-between. Cubase faders follow a curve (kind of) but have distinct breaks that cannot be reproduced with a simple formula. Studio One faders have a "curve" that is just straight lines with a number of distinct direction changes.

In addition there seems to be a bug in the MCU implementation in Cubase - when faders are set to max at +12db, Cubase stops sending values when +10 is reached...

This is the plotted curves from Cubase and Studio One. The red curve is the formula  20*LN(x/12864)+3 that is the closest thing to the Cubase curve that I have found. (I know that I'm supposed to use LOG, not LN, but with LOG I can't get anything that's even close to the curves). Anyhow...using formulas seems to be a dead end...

Using brute force and mapping a large number of data points I now have working db values for Cubase, Nuendo, Studio One, Ableton Live, Logic and Bitwig. Anything else that is a "must have"?

Admin wrote:Using brute force and mapping a large number of data points I now have working db values for Cubase, Nuendo, Studio One, Ableton Live, Logic and Bitwig. Anything else that is a "must have"?

Wow. Great. I appreciate all your efforts. I'd like to add Reaper.

OK, Reaper added...

Did the db values for Reaper work as expected in the new version?